Williams’s ludicrous outburst: fisking the backlash

February 8 2008

I just knew there was going to be a pro-Williams backlash today. To be fair to the people who’ve stepped up to the plate, they’re brave in taking an unpopular stance. But I’m so, soooo in disagreement with them that I feel the need to Fisk… and Jeevan Vasagar’s piece at Comment is Free seems as likely a candidate as any. Helpfully he links to the text of the Venerable Windbag’s speech.

So, from the top…

This isn’t really about the detail, or what he actually said.

It is, actually: he said in order to achieve a constructive accommodation with Islam and to aid community cohesion, British law should take more account, in some way, of Islamic law, possibly by in some way delegating responsibility to Islamic councils. He said this was unavoidable; and he specifically mentioned law on marriage as an example. This seems to me this gist of at least part of his speech, and his BBC interview. It’s precisely about what he said. And it is about the detail that he left out, e.g. what rights precisely does he imagine Muslim wives and children, say as having or not having in Britain.

That much was obvious by the time the BBC’s 10 o’clock news was gleefully summoning up archive clips of floggings, amputations and Taliban firing squads to illustrate the archbishop’s thoughtful speech.

A classic pro-Williams line is that he’s “thoughful”. Well, he may think a lot, and his speech certainly is written in a very academic style, hedging his proposal in with all manner of abstract theoretical musings and references to papers. But it’s important not to be distracted by someone’s written and personal style into thinking theit “thoughfulness” implies that the content of what they say is somehow beyond criticism except by other “thoughtful” scholarly types.

The fact is there are plenty of countries where sharia exists alongside secular law. It’s the case in much of east Africa, where I used to live. In Tanzania, for example, Muslim family law applies to Muslim citizens. When it comes to questions of divorce, custody and inheritance, Muslim families settle their disputes at courts unique to their communities.

I notice he doesn’t say how fairly he thinks this operates or how Muslim women are protected or otherwise in the Tanzanian system.

There’s an interesting clash here – a classic liberal dilemma. Do you promote the rights of a minority community or do you worry more about the rights of Muslim women, who may get treated less generously under sharia than under secular law?

Isn’t this quite an easy choice if you have any personal relationship with the word “liberal”?

These are vital concerns; sharia family law dictates, for example, that fathers automatically get custody of children after divorce. It also sanctions polygamous marriage, a set-up in which the younger wives are – if the stories I heard in east Africa hold true – invariably treated miserably. Such practices are plainly unjust.

Ah, so Tanzania ain’t that great after all. And how can Williams and his defenders accuse people like me of harbouring ignorant “myths” about the content of sharia law, if they’re prepared openly to admit it fails to protect children’s rights in relation to their mothers, and the rights of the mothers themselves? Jeevan Vasagar is brave to mention this, as other like Williams are keen, as Williams did in his speech, to soft-pedal Islamic injustice and gloss over it.

The problem is that the right, and their fellow-travellers on the Muslim-bashing left, will seize on this. For them, it’s a case of mediaeval misogyny versus western enlightenment. Suddenly, papers that oppose abortion and believe career women will always be unhappy start cross-dressing as feminists. Don’t believe this ruse – they’re just using feminism as a stick to beat Muslims with.

I hate this argumentative device. He’s trying to say: “the BNP and the Sun hate Williams’s proposal; they use feminism as a cloak for their racism; therefore the feminist case against Williams is a fraud. If you’re against racists and misogynists, back the thoughtful Williams on sharia!” Anyone can see through this, can’t they?

Remember when Jack Straw told women in his constituency to take off their veils when they came to see him? The voices of the veiled women telling him to mind his own business were loud, confident and unmistakeably Lancastrian.

I think there was quite a diverse reaction to his comments, among which this was only one. And if having an unmistakeable Lancastrian accent means you’re always right, then frankly I have to tell him that means I automatically win every argument I ever take part in!

The point is that feminism can’t be imposed from outside.

From outside what? And if feminism can’t be imposed, then there’s no basis for laws on pornography or equal pay and equal treatment at work, is there? Aren’t they attempts to impose feminist ideas? Actually, come to think about it, is there any point in having laws to impose liberal feminist ideas on rapists?

Muslim men don’t have a monopoly on misogyny, and white men aren’t the only ones to be enlightened.

Obviously; but does he think misogyny is a problem or not? Does the mote of misogyny elsewhere justify the misogynistic Islamic law beam?

Aggressively rejecting religious traditions only strengthens them.

A mere assertion whose function is to rhetorically associate secularism with aggression. This sentence is also tricksy because it implies that the writer is opposed to strengthening religious traditions. But is he?

Rowan Williams is right about this, though his quiet voice is getting drowned out in the hysteria.

Williams characterised as “thoughtful” again, and anyone who disagrees with him as hysterical. Not a word one should use without care if one really is concerned about misogyny.

Sharia already plays a role in devout Muslim lives, and has to be accepted and understood.

Why does the one follow from the other? It’s that spirit of moral compromise again, that I mentioned yesterday: this is the case; therefore it must be accepted.

But there also has to be a right of appeal. In Muslim countries that practice sharia, it is not a static entity but a living body of rules – just like secular law – which often co-exists with inherited colonial structures and traditional practices.

I don’t see how lack of stasis guarantees fairness. Or why sharia’s general resemblance to other legal systems at the highest level of abstraction, or the possibility of co-existence, really makes the case for why it ought to be allowed to co-exist. Plus: if ultimately the “right of appeal” means applying British law, then why bother having sharia at any stage? If is doesn’t means this, then what does it mean and what good is it?

There are battles over sexism to be fought and won with the Muslim community, just as there are within the Hindu, Sikh, Christian and any other.

Is the writer fighting them?

They aren’t going to be won by ignorantly shouting down a skilfully argued speech.

Williams argues skilfully; his opponent shout and are ignorant. This is the message you’re being given, although if you read the speech you’ll it’s skilful, but in the sense of hedging round a vague proposal with so much academic theorising that you think the actual proposal hidden inside is much more reasonable than it really is. As for the rest of us, I’m not shouting. And if someone is the most ridiculous man in England then I see nothing shouty in saying it.

Oh, and this line also seeks to intimidate liberals by the old device: Ssh! if you’re pro-human rights, keep quiet about them! That way, the Chinese/Burmese/Iranians/Islamists will gradually see things your way. But if you try to ram your fancy ideas down people’s thoats…

There’s a case to be made for combining the better elements of all our traditions, for the common good, and the archbishop is a brave man for making it.

What better element is there in Islamic family law that we should combine with our own family law?

2008-02-08T17:03:00+00:00Tags: , , |

Sharia law debate on More 4 news

February 7 2008

Unbelievably, More 4 news tonight, leading on the Williams/sharia story, has a “debate” between a pro-Williams Muslim lawyer, who backs Williams; and the extreme Islamist Anjem Choudhury, who opposed Williams on the basis that his proposal would not to lead to the wholesale replacement on British law with sharia. Is the editor bonkers?

Trevor Phillips, in contrast, talked sense on Channel 4 news, saying Williams was giving succour to extremists.

2008-02-07T21:09:00+00:00Tags: , |

Sharia law: windbag Williams at it again

February 7 2008

I’ve never had much time for Rowan Williams: touted and hyped as a man of liberal progressive principle, and the highest posisble intelligence, he has in fact shown himself as prepared to bow to hatred of homosexuality rather than stand up for fairness and as showing a lack of moral focus on abortion. I see no principle in him whatever, except that he will be vicar of Lambeth, and I agree completely with Polly Toynbee’s characterisation of his as a pathetic weather-vane windbag. He fully deserves this kind of public ridicule in my view.

No surprise, then, that such a great liberal thinker should come up with the suggestion that Sharia law is in some sense “unavoidable” in the UK. We must, he says, “face up to the fact” that some British citizens do not relate” to the British legal system. In typical ringing (should that be wringing?) Williams style he says the idea that there is one law for all, surely one of the fundamental ideas essential to a liberal democracy, is

“… a bit of a danger.”

What he wants is a “constructive accommodation” with Islamic law.

Now, I’ve no problem with Islamic law governing Islam: who’s married to whom in Islamic terms, for example. I’ve no problem with Muslim traders choosing to arbitrate commercial disputes using Islamic law arbitration systems. But I think he must be arguing for more than that: for the secular law of the land somehow to recognise an Islamic jurisdiction separate from its own, as in the frightening example of the “criminal trial” mentioned in this article, or for instance by Islamic rules on divorce to be recognised here.

I’m with John Bolch of Family Lore on this: integrating sharia law into the fabric of our legal system in that kind of way would be unfair to the women it would undoubtedly oppress, and would be the real bit of a danger to our society. But then, it should come as no surprise by now that Williams want to constructive accomodate unfairness and wrong.

Actually I think his use of the word “unavoidable” gives a real insight into the psychology of moral compromise: it seems unavoidable; therefore one should accomodate it.

I think he’s the most ridiculous man in England.

2008-02-07T15:26:00+00:00Tags: , |

Lords judgments

February 6 2008

There are four judgments today: none of them really grab me by the throat, but I’m sure they’ll interest others. There’s a technical one about European Arrest Warrants, Pilecki v Circuit Court of Legnica; technical consolidated criminal appeals about the need for an indictment, Clarke and McDaid; a Norther Irish case about proceeds of crime, In re Maye; and a landlord and tenant case, Majorstake v Curtis.

2008-02-06T12:28:00+00:00Tags: |

EU (Amendment) Bill: Charter of Fundamental Rights

February 5 2008

The Commons continues today to debate the Bill – and today I expect the debate to be a true Europhobiafest, since the theme is human rights, a subject which, even when not linked to the EU, causes much grinding of teeth and hypertension not only, but particularly, in the Conservative clubs of England. Most of the amendments are pretty predictable: they either come from usual backbench suspects (Heathcoat-Amory, Cash, Shepherd) or from the Tory front bench.

But there is one more interesting one, from a group of independent-minded Labour Eurosceptics and others with a special interest in the EU (John Cruddas, Frank Dobson, Kate Hoey and Frank Field as well as Michael Connarty, who chairs the European Scrutiny Committee that was doubtful about the government’s so-called (though to be fair, not by the government) opt-out from the Charter. The aim seems to be to ensure that no provision of the Charter – not simply the provisions on “solidarity”, which mention the right to strike and which wound the CBI up quite disproportionately, leading to all this palaver – creates new justiciable rights in the UK.

Here are links to the Bill and to the Treaty itself including that Protocol.

Garry Weddell: this wasn’t about bail either

February 1 2008

I’ve blogged before about Garry Newlove’s murder not being attributable to a bail decision, and I’ve spoken to Charon to explain why I think the recent media panic about bail, because of that case and the case of Garry Weddell, was groundless. So I’m very glad the transcripts of the key bail hearings in the Weddell case have now been released. In my view they vindicate the judge, and should silence those who’ve been asking for inquiries into the decision to grant bail, a reform of bail law, and so on. I’m also pleased the psychiatrist in the case gave an interview last night on Channel 4 news to explain why he considered Weddell sane, and not an imminent suicide risk.

The CPS’s objection to bail was not that they thought Weddell was likely to kill again. At the key hearing in Ipswich in July 2007, the real issues were whether he’d abscond, interfere with witnesses or harm himself. Of course, but for the fact that Weddell was released on bail, Traute Maxwell would not have been killed six months later. I appreciate that. But those who see in this proof that the decision to release him was wrong, or, worse, that it shows the bail system is seriously flawed and lax, really must face up to the logic of their position.

Do they say everyone accused of murder should always automatically be kept in prison pending trial, regardless of how much or little risk they appear to pose? Presumably yes. Presumably the same principle should apply to those accused of rape. Why not, after all? What about those charged with GBH? Sexual assault? ABH? Assault on police (which was the offence Adam Swellings was bailed for)? And why shouldn’t the same apply to those accused of drug dealing, or using child porn? They may pose a risk, after all. Nor is it a trivial matter if you’re burgled: so presumably those accused of burglary should also have no chance of bail, either.

Perhaps we’ll need those titan prisons after all.

2008-02-01T12:27:00+00:00Tags: , , , , |

Lords judgment: A v Hoare

January 31 2008

I was at a conference yesterday, which is why I didn’t blog about yesterday’s Lords judgment in A v Hoare and related appeals, in which they ruled that civil claims for damages can be made out of time in some circumstances in cases of rape and sexual assault.

But being stuck in traffic listening to Radio 5 Live, I was astonished by some of the reactions to the judgment. At one point it seemed everyone thought the ruling unfair. Jill Saward, who bravely spoke out having been raped in the 1980s, said (and I think I heard right!) she was disappointed by the ruling and that the state, not rapists, ought to compensate rape victims. Others suggested somehow it was unfair to convicted rapists who’d “paid their price” in prison.

I find these attitudes difficult to believe. The Hoare case seemed to me a paradigm of what you might call circumstantial unfairness: someone who owes society a lot, and who owes one person in particular more than any debt analogy can bear, lucks out completely, and becomes filthy rich. While it was rational within the limitation period for Mrs. A not to sue (Hoare presumably having had little money then), now it’s very rational indeed. The idea that the law should not allow her to get her hands on it, so as to redress some of the incredible unfairness of the situation, seems to me… well, isn’t that almost a definition of injustice?

Two more points. If absent fathers, not the community as a whole, should pay to raise children (and I agree they should); and if polluters, not the community as a whole, should pay for cleaning up environmental damage (I agree they should) then it seems to me obvious that criminals, not the community as a whole, should pay compensation to their victims. Anythiung else is unfair to the community. Where criminals cannot compensate, then yes, that’s where state compensation comes in.

Finally, solicitors representing various parties yesterday were at pains to stress this was not about the money. Why? Mrs. A may not want Hoare’s money (although I’m not madly sympathetic to that attitude: if not, then isn’t suing for damages an abuse of the court?) but it seems to me there’d be nothing wrong at all if she did – and it’s right she should get it. It seems to me quite wrong for anyone to imply there’s anything immoral or shameful in her wanting it from him.

The money is the principle.

2008-01-31T11:58:00+00:00Tags: , , , |

Nonsense reforms to the Attorney’s role

January 29 2008

Frances Gibb in today’s Times is reporting that the government will propose handing over to the DPP the Attorney’s role of consenting to a range of prosecutions – although otherwise, the Attorney’s role will remain unchanged.

I don’t say all change to the Attorney’s role is ridiculous – I’m not quite that bufferish. But the fact is that the fashionable chattering desire for change simply results from a series of controversial decisions by or involving Lord Goldsmith. I’ve yet to see a properly thought-through, sustainable proposal for change.

As for this… nonsense, isn’t it? What’s the point, if she’ll keep her role in relation to cases involving “the public interest”? And anyway, I think the whole idea of transferring consent to the DPP objectionable. The whole point of consent is to ensure some prosecution decisions have to be taken by someone responsible to Parliament. Giving that role to the DPP is no better than simply leaving it with a Crown Prosecutor. That’s all he is, after all.

If this goes through, in a year or two there’ll b calls for these decisions to be made “independently” (i.e. of the CPS) by someone “accountable” (i.e. to Parliament).

Funny that, after the Garry Newlove case, the local MP Helen Jones thought to write to the Attorney whenh she wanted someone to complain to.

2008-01-29T11:51:00+00:00Tags: , |

Charon interview with Andrew Holroyd

January 29 2008

Charon QC latest interviewee is Andrew Holroyd, President of the Law Society – who talks to him about the Society’s work on Zimbabwe and Pakistan, which you’ll know is an issue I’ve been concerned about since the lawyers’ protests began in November.

I’m glad he’s taken such a clear position on these important international issues: it helps build the credibility of lawyers as an international constituency for constitutionalism and the rule of law. And that he clearly takes new media seriously – well done to Charon for bagging this interview!

2008-01-29T11:42:00+00:00Tags: , , |
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